It is hard to be human. And right now, it is even harder to be humane, to ourselves and to others.
And so many high-achieving, deeply caring leaders are under pressure to stay regulated, calm, and adaptable, no matter what they’re facing. They look serene on the outside, but internally? They feel like a hot mess.
They mask what they’re feeling and push through so they can try to be the person, friend, leader they want to be. They fake regulation at the expense of their actual wellbeing.
As the language of modalities like IFS and polyvagal theory has spread into the culture to help and support individuals and teams, I see how the language of these powerful concepts can also be distorted and even weaponized to police others instead of leading to generative change.
When people talk about the parts work or nervous system regulation but don’t really live it and practice it, they end up encouraging self-editing, silencing, and hyper vigilance .
This way of using the language of these modalities is the exact opposite of cultivating the safety, connection, and building practices that support adaptive and resilient systems.
In my latest Unburdened Leader podcast episode, polyvagal-theory expert Deb Dana is back to talk with me about what the culture so often gets wrong about nervous system regulation, why we need to plan for how to approach repair and reconnection when we inevitably make mistakes, and how to protect our compassion and curiosity about all the other kinds of nervous systems we encounter out in the world.
Deb Dana, LCSW, is a clinician, consultant, author, and international lecturer on polyvagal theory-informed work with trauma survivors and is the leading translator of this scientific work to the public and mental health professionals. She’s a founding member of the Polyvagal Institute and creator of the signature Rhythm of Regulation® clinical training series.
Deb’s work shows us how understanding polyvagal theory applies across the board to relationships, mental health, and trauma. She delves into the intricacies of how we can all use and understand the organizing principles of polyvagal theory to change the ways we navigate our daily lives.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
- Why we can’t ignore our fundamental need for connection and co-regulation
- How leaders can take steps to acknowledge and normalize the diversity of nervous systems and needs on their teams
- How to plan ahead for moments when you feel disconnected or dysregulated
- Why the goal is not to be regulated at all times and shifting states is just data
- Why identifying the worries underlying our patterns of states and behaviors is the first step to shifting them
- Why leaders need to tend to their own systems, both for their wellbeing and to model safety for others
Learn more about Deb Dana:
Learn more about Rebecca:
- rebeccaching.com
- Work With Rebecca
- The Unburdened Leader on Substack
- Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email
Resources:
- The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth, Amy C. Edmondson
- Stephen Porges
- Polyvagal-Informed Restorative Movement: Psychotherapy Roots, Rhythm, and Reciprocity, Amber Elizabeth Gray
- Project Hail Mary
- Field of Dreams
Favorite Moments
“We are wired for connection, wishing for connection, and waiting for connection.”
“Co-regulation is simply two nervous systems finding a way to come into connection.”
“We’re supposed to begin with co-regulation and build self-regulation on top of that.”
“Many people learned self-regulation through survival instead of safety.”
“The goal is not to be regulated all the time.”
“Your nervous system is always acting in service of your survival.”
“Calm is not the only flavor of ventral.”
“You cannot fake regulation.”
“What’s happening on the inside is always being communicated.”
“Curiosity disappears when survival takes over.”
“Your nervous system is always trying to communicate with you.”
“If you keep ignoring your nervous system, it will speak louder.”
“We don’t need big transformational moments. Micro moments shape us.”
“Practice regulation when you don’t need it so it’s available when you do.”
“We are responsible for the autonomic information we put into the world.”
“There’s no right or wrong nervous system—only your nervous system.”
“Your survival responses are not personal failures. They are protective adaptations.”
“Your nervous system knows the way.”
“Home away from home is the survival state your system returns to most often.”
“Some people survive by becoming invisible. Others survive by becoming driven.”
“Organizations have collective nervous system cultures.”
“You cannot be a cue of safety for others if you are not tending to yourself.”
“A safe leader is someone who can repair when dysregulated.”
“Micro moments accumulate and shape your nervous system over time.”
“Befriending your nervous system is an ongoing conversation.”
Conversation Highlights
02:00 — What Co-Regulation Actually Means
Deb explains co-regulation as the biological process of nervous systems finding safety and connection together.
04:00 — Self-Regulation from Safety vs Survival
The difference between grounded self-regulation and survival-driven overfunctioning, productivity, and “should-ing.”
07:00 — Solitude, Socializing & Nervous System Needs
Why some people regulate through connection while others need more solitude—and why neither is wrong.
09:00 — Leading Rooms Full of Different Nervous Systems
How leaders, parents, and facilitators can normalize different regulation needs without falling into caretaking.
11:00 — What Happens When Safe Co-Regulation Was Missing Early On
A compassionate look at attachment wounds, isolation, and why vulnerability can feel terrifying.
12:00 — The 2 AM Nervous System Spiral
Practical ways to create co-regulation plans, connection agreements, and nervous system support during hard moments.
14:00 — Understanding the Polyvagal Hierarchy
Deb walks through ventral vagal regulation, sympathetic activation, and dorsal shutdown in simple language.
17:00 — Building a Nervous System Regulation Menu
Why practicing regulation proactively matters—and how to create accessible tools for overwhelmed moments.
20:00 — Why “Biohacking” the Nervous System Misses the Point
Deb and Rebecca unpack why nervous system work is about relationship, not control or optimization.
23:00 — Micro Moments, Glimmers & Everyday Regulation
How tiny moments of safety and connection slowly reshape the nervous system over time.
25:00 — Calm Is Not the Goal
Deb challenges the idea that regulation equals calm and explores other flavors of ventral energy like joy, passion, purpose, and peace.
27:00 — What Happens When Curiosity Disappears
Why survival states biologically shut down compassion, flexibility, and relational capacity.
31:00 — Your Nervous System Is Always Talking to You
How symptoms, patterns, and emotional reactions become messages asking for attention.
33:00 — Trauma, Intellectualizing & Living “Neck Up”
Why trauma survivors often disconnect from the body—and how nervous system language can feel safer than embodiment language.
35:00 — Why Changing the Story Doesn’t Work First
Deb explains how stories emerge from nervous system states—and why state change must come before sustainable mindset change.
38:00 — Your “Home Away From Home” Nervous System State
Understanding the survival state your system defaults to most often and how it once protected you.
45:00 — What Makes a Leader Feel Safe in 2026
A powerful conversation about repair, responsibility, nervous system awareness, and creating safety for others during uncertain times.
50:00 — Quick Fire Favorites
Project Hail Mary, Field of Dreams, classical music, nervous system wisdom, and Deb’s strong opinions about certification culture.
Closing Reflection
This conversation reminds us that regulation is not perfection.
It’s not about becoming calm all the time.
It’s not about controlling every emotional response.
And it’s not about becoming endlessly self-sufficient.
It’s about relationship.
Relationship with your nervous system.
Relationship with other nervous systems.
Relationship with safety, connection, and repair.
And perhaps most importantly:
👉 Learning to listen to the messages your nervous system has been trying to send all along.
Because survival states are not signs that you’re broken.
They are signs that your system has been trying to protect you.
💬 Reflection Prompt
What is your nervous system trying to communicate to you right now that you’ve been too busy, too driven, or too overwhelmed to hear?
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